Talmud Bavli
Menachot 75b מנחות ע״ה ב
Part of: Daf 75
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אמר רבה איזהו דבר שצריך שני מיעוטין הוי אומר זו מנחת מאפה
Rabba says: This is the reason that wafers are also excluded from the mitzva of pouring, while a meal offering brought by a priest is not excluded: The verse uses two expressions of exclusion: “Upon it,” and: “It is a meal offering.” What is the matter that requires two exclusions? You must say: It is the oven-baked meal offering, of which there are two types of offerings: Wafers and loaves.
Rabba says: This is the reason that wafers are also excluded from the mitzva of pouring, while a meal offering brought by a priest is not excluded: The verse uses two expressions of exclusion: “Upon it,” and: “It is a meal offering.” What is the matter that requires two exclusions? You must say: It is the oven-baked meal offering, of which there are two types of offerings: Wafers and loaves.
מתני׳ מנחת ישראל קופל אחד לשנים ושנים לארבעה ומבדיל מנחת כהנים קופל אחד לשנים ושנים לארבעה ואינו מבדיל מנחת כהן משיח לא היה מקפלה רבי שמעון אומר מנחת כהנים ומנחת כהן משיח אין בהן פתיתה מפני שאין בהן קמיצה וכל שאין בהן קמיצה אין בהן פתיתה וכולן פותתן כזיתים
MISHNA: In breaking the meal offering of an Israelite into pieces, the priest folds [kofel] one into two and two into four and separates it at the folds. In breaking into pieces the meal offering of priests, the priest folds one into two and two into four and does not separate it at the folds. Because no handful is removed, separation is unnecessary. In the case of the griddle-cake meal offering of the anointed priest, he would not fold it. Rabbi Shimon says: In neither the meal offering of priests nor the meal offering of the anointed priest is there breaking into pieces, because in those meal offerings there is no removal of a handful. And any meal offering in which there is no removal of a handful there is no breaking into pieces. And in all meal offerings that are broken into pieces, the priest breaks them into olive-bulk-sized pieces.
MISHNA: In breaking the meal offering of an Israelite into pieces, the priest folds [kofel] one into two and two into four and separates it at the folds. In breaking into pieces the meal offering of priests, the priest folds one into two and two into four and does not separate it at the folds. Because no handful is removed, separation is unnecessary. In the case of the griddle-cake meal offering of the anointed priest, he would not fold it. Rabbi Shimon says: In neither the meal offering of priests nor the meal offering of the anointed priest is there breaking into pieces, because in those meal offerings there is no removal of a handful. And any meal offering in which there is no removal of a handful there is no breaking into pieces. And in all meal offerings that are broken into pieces, the priest breaks them into olive-bulk-sized pieces.
גמ׳ תנו רבנן פתות יכול לשנים תלמוד לומר פתים אי פתים יכול יעשנה פירורין תלמוד לומר אתה אותה לפתיתים ולא פתיתה לפתיתים
GEMARA: With regard to the difference between the meal offering of an Israelite and that of a priest detailed in the mishna, the Sages taught in a baraita: The verse states: “You shall break it in pieces” (Leviticus 2:6). One might have thought that it should be broken into only two pieces. Therefore, the verse states: “Break it in pieces,” indicating that each of these two pieces is subsequently broken into more pieces. If the Torah requires pieces, one might have thought that he should repeatedly break it into pieces until he renders it into crumbs. Therefore, the verse states: “Break it,” i.e., break it in pieces, and do not break its pieces into additional pieces.
GEMARA: With regard to the difference between the meal offering of an Israelite and that of a priest detailed in the mishna, the Sages taught in a baraita: The verse states: “You shall break it in pieces” (Leviticus 2:6). One might have thought that it should be broken into only two pieces. Therefore, the verse states: “Break it in pieces,” indicating that each of these two pieces is subsequently broken into more pieces. If the Torah requires pieces, one might have thought that he should repeatedly break it into pieces until he renders it into crumbs. Therefore, the verse states: “Break it,” i.e., break it in pieces, and do not break its pieces into additional pieces.
הא כיצד מנחת ישראל קופל אחד לשנים ושנים לארבעה ומבדיל מנחת כהנים וכהן משיח היה מקפלה וכו׳ והא אנן תנן לא היה מקפלה אמר רבה אינו מקפלה לארבעה אבל מקפלה לשנים
How so? In the case of the meal offering of an Israelite, the priest folds one into two and two into four and separates the pieces. In breaking into pieces the meal offering of priests and the anointed priest, the priest folds it into two, as it is stated: “In broken pieces you shall sacrifice the offering” (Leviticus 6:14). The Gemara asks: With regard to the meal offering of the anointed priest, didn’t we learn in the mishna: He would not fold it? Rabba says: He does not fold it into four, as it does not use the doubled phrase: “You shall break it in pieces [patot otah pitim],” but he does fold it into two.
How so? In the case of the meal offering of an Israelite, the priest folds one into two and two into four and separates the pieces. In breaking into pieces the meal offering of priests and the anointed priest, the priest folds it into two, as it is stated: “In broken pieces you shall sacrifice the offering” (Leviticus 6:14). The Gemara asks: With regard to the meal offering of the anointed priest, didn’t we learn in the mishna: He would not fold it? Rabba says: He does not fold it into four, as it does not use the doubled phrase: “You shall break it in pieces [patot otah pitim],” but he does fold it into two.
רבי שמעון אומר מנחת כהנים ומנחת כהן משיח אין בהן פתיתה אמר רב יוסף האי חביצא דאית בה פירורין כזית מברכינן עליה המוציא לחם מן הארץ אי לית בה פירורין כזית מברכינן עליה בורא מיני מזונות
The mishna teaches: Rabbi Shimon says: In neither the meal offering of priests nor the meal offering of the anointed priest is there breaking into pieces…and in all meal offerings that are broken into pieces, one breaks them into olive-bulk pieces. Rav Yosef said: Over this cooked dish, which contains pieces of bread that are the size of an olive-bulk, before eating it one recites upon it the blessing of: Who brings forth bread from the earth. Over that same cooked dish, if it does not contain pieces of bread that are the size of an olive-bulk, before eating it one recites upon it the blessing of: Who creates the various kinds of nourishment.
The mishna teaches: Rabbi Shimon says: In neither the meal offering of priests nor the meal offering of the anointed priest is there breaking into pieces…and in all meal offerings that are broken into pieces, one breaks them into olive-bulk pieces. Rav Yosef said: Over this cooked dish, which contains pieces of bread that are the size of an olive-bulk, before eating it one recites upon it the blessing of: Who brings forth bread from the earth. Over that same cooked dish, if it does not contain pieces of bread that are the size of an olive-bulk, before eating it one recites upon it the blessing of: Who creates the various kinds of nourishment.
אמר רב יוסף מנא אמינא לה דתניא היה עומד ומקריב מנחות בירושלים אומר ברוך שהחיינו וקימנו נטלן לאכלן אומר המוציא לחם מן הארץ ותנן וכולן פתיתים בכזית
Rav Yosef said: From where do I say this halakha? As it is taught in a baraita: The first time an Israelite would stand and instruct a priest to sacrifice meal offerings in Jerusalem on his behalf, he would recite: Blessed are You, Lord our God, King of the universe, Who has given us life and sustained us and brought us to this time, as it is the first time that the Israelite fulfills the mitzva of bringing that offering. Following the removal of the handful, when the priest would take the meal offerings in order to eat them, he would first recite the blessing of: Who brings forth bread from the earth. And we learned in the mishna: And in all meal offerings that are broken into pieces, the priest breaks them into pieces the size of an olive-bulk. This proves that over pieces of bread that are the volume of an olive-bulk, one recites the blessing of: Who brings forth bread from the earth.
Rav Yosef said: From where do I say this halakha? As it is taught in a baraita: The first time an Israelite would stand and instruct a priest to sacrifice meal offerings in Jerusalem on his behalf, he would recite: Blessed are You, Lord our God, King of the universe, Who has given us life and sustained us and brought us to this time, as it is the first time that the Israelite fulfills the mitzva of bringing that offering. Following the removal of the handful, when the priest would take the meal offerings in order to eat them, he would first recite the blessing of: Who brings forth bread from the earth. And we learned in the mishna: And in all meal offerings that are broken into pieces, the priest breaks them into pieces the size of an olive-bulk. This proves that over pieces of bread that are the volume of an olive-bulk, one recites the blessing of: Who brings forth bread from the earth.
אמר ליה אביי ולתנא דבי רבי ישמעאל דאמר מפרכן עד שמחזירן לסלתן הכי נמי דלא מברך המוציא
Abaye said to Rav Yosef: But according to the tanna of the school of Rabbi Yishmael, who said with regard to meal offerings: He crushes them continuously until he restores them to the form they had when they were flour, would you say that so too, in that case, one who eats a meal offering so prepared does not recite the blessing of: Who brings forth bread from the earth?
Abaye said to Rav Yosef: But according to the tanna of the school of Rabbi Yishmael, who said with regard to meal offerings: He crushes them continuously until he restores them to the form they had when they were flour, would you say that so too, in that case, one who eats a meal offering so prepared does not recite the blessing of: Who brings forth bread from the earth?
וכי תימא הכי נמי והתניא ליקט מכולן כזית ואכלו אם חמץ הוא ענוש כרת אם מצה הוא אדם יוצא בהן ידי חובתו בפסח
And if you would say that indeed, one does not recite that blessing over these meal offerings, that is difficult: But isn’t it taught in a baraita: With regard to one who gathered a portion the volume of an olive-bulk from all of the crumbs of the meal offerings and ate it, if it was an offering of leavened bread like that of a thanks offering, and he ate it on Passover, his act is punishable by karet. If it was an offering of unleavened bread, a person fulfills his obligation to eat matza on Passover through the consumption of those pieces. This indicates that pieces of bread, regardless of their volume, are always considered bread.
And if you would say that indeed, one does not recite that blessing over these meal offerings, that is difficult: But isn’t it taught in a baraita: With regard to one who gathered a portion the volume of an olive-bulk from all of the crumbs of the meal offerings and ate it, if it was an offering of leavened bread like that of a thanks offering, and he ate it on Passover, his act is punishable by karet. If it was an offering of unleavened bread, a person fulfills his obligation to eat matza on Passover through the consumption of those pieces. This indicates that pieces of bread, regardless of their volume, are always considered bread.
הכא במאי עסקינן בשעירסן
Rav Yosef answered him that this is not the halakha, and one does not recite a blessing over crumbs of bread as he would over actual bread. Rather, what are we dealing with here? We are dealing with a case where one kneaded the crumbs of bread together and pressed them [beshe’eirsan] into a single mass.
Rav Yosef answered him that this is not the halakha, and one does not recite a blessing over crumbs of bread as he would over actual bread. Rather, what are we dealing with here? We are dealing with a case where one kneaded the crumbs of bread together and pressed them [beshe’eirsan] into a single mass.
אי הכי היינו דקתני עלה והוא שאכלן בכדי אכילת פרס ואי בשעירסן שאכלו מיבעי ליה אלא הכא במאי עסקינן בבא מלחם גדול
The Gemara challenges this: If so, that which is taught about the ruling in the baraita: And this is the halakha when he ate all of the crumbs that constitute the volume of an olive-bulk in the time it takes to eat a half-loaf [peras] of bread, is difficult. As, if it is a case where he pressed them into a single mass, the baraita should have taught: When he ate it, in the singular, as it is a single item. Rather, what are we dealing with here? We are dealing with a case where the crumbs came from a large loaf of bread. Although the crumbs themselves are each smaller than an olive-bulk, since they were broken from a large loaf, they are considered significant.
The Gemara challenges this: If so, that which is taught about the ruling in the baraita: And this is the halakha when he ate all of the crumbs that constitute the volume of an olive-bulk in the time it takes to eat a half-loaf [peras] of bread, is difficult. As, if it is a case where he pressed them into a single mass, the baraita should have taught: When he ate it, in the singular, as it is a single item. Rather, what are we dealing with here? We are dealing with a case where the crumbs came from a large loaf of bread. Although the crumbs themselves are each smaller than an olive-bulk, since they were broken from a large loaf, they are considered significant.
מאי הוי עלה רב ששת אמר אפילו פירורין שאין בהן כזית אמר רבא והוא דאיכא תוריתא דנהמא עלייהו
The Gemara asks: With regard to the blessing recited on the cooked dish with pieces less than an olive-bulk in volume, what halakhic conclusion was reached about it? Rav Sheshet says: Even when eating pieces of bread that do not have the volume of an olive-bulk, one recites the blessing of: Who brings forth bread from the earth. Rava said: And this is limited to a case where the crumbs still have the appearance [torita] of bread, and they did not dissolve completely.
The Gemara asks: With regard to the blessing recited on the cooked dish with pieces less than an olive-bulk in volume, what halakhic conclusion was reached about it? Rav Sheshet says: Even when eating pieces of bread that do not have the volume of an olive-bulk, one recites the blessing of: Who brings forth bread from the earth. Rava said: And this is limited to a case where the crumbs still have the appearance [torita] of bread, and they did not dissolve completely.
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- Menachot 75a Amud
- Menachot 76a Amud
- Daf 75