Talmud Yerushalmi
Yerushalmi Avodah Zarah 3:8 ירושלמי עבודה זרה ג׳:ח׳
Part of: Chapter 3
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משנה: שְׁלשָׁה אֲבָנִים הֵן. אֶבֶן שֶׁחֲצָבָהּ מִתְּחִלָּה לַבִּימוֹס הֲרֵי זוֹ אֲסוּרָה. סִיֵיד וְכִיְּירָהּ לְשֵׁם עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה וְחִידֵּשׁ נוֹטֵל מַה שֶּׁחִידֵּשׁ. הֶעֱמִיד עָלֶיהָ עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה וְסִלְּקָהּ הֲרֵי זוֹ מוּתֶּרֶת.
MISHNAH: There are three kinds of stone. If he quarried them from the start as pedestal231Greek βωμός. The expression is used exclusively for pedestals of idols (including statues of emperors). From the comparison with the next Mishnaiot one must assume that a pedestal in itself was an object of veneration. it is forbidden. If he whitewashed it and ornamented it for idolatry and renovated, one removes what he renovated. If he put an idol on it and removed it, it is permitted.
MISHNAH: There are three kinds of stone. If he quarried them from the start as pedestal231Greek βωμός. The expression is used exclusively for pedestals of idols (including statues of emperors). From the comparison with the next Mishnaiot one must assume that a pedestal in itself was an object of veneration. it is forbidden. If he whitewashed it and ornamented it for idolatry and renovated, one removes what he renovated. If he put an idol on it and removed it, it is permitted.
הלכה: שְׁלשָׁה אֲבָנִים הֵן כול׳. רִבִּי בָּא בְשֵׁם רַב. מִזּוֹ הַמְיוּתָּכִים לָעֲבוֹדָה זָרָה נֶאֱסָר מִיָּד. רִבִּי יִרְמְיָה בְשֵׁם רִבִּי לָעְזָר. מִזּוֹ הַמַּתִּיךְ כּוֹס לָעֲבוֹדָה זָרָה נֶאֱסָר מִיָּד.
HALAKHAH: “There are three kinds of stones,” etc. Rebbi Abba in the name of Rav: This232The first part of the Mishnah is not only about stones quarried but about everything intentionally manufactured as an idol. Therefore if a metal statue was cast, the process of casting makes it forbidden even before it is polished and worshipped. implies that what is cast for idolatry is immediately forbidden. Rebbi Jeremiah in the name of Rebbi Eleazar: This implies that if one casts a cup for idolatry it is immediately forbidden233A cup is an implement of worship; it is not an object of worship. The statement of R. Eleazar is stronger than that of Rav. The Babli disagrees, 52a..
HALAKHAH: “There are three kinds of stones,” etc. Rebbi Abba in the name of Rav: This232The first part of the Mishnah is not only about stones quarried but about everything intentionally manufactured as an idol. Therefore if a metal statue was cast, the process of casting makes it forbidden even before it is polished and worshipped. implies that what is cast for idolatry is immediately forbidden. Rebbi Jeremiah in the name of Rebbi Eleazar: This implies that if one casts a cup for idolatry it is immediately forbidden233A cup is an implement of worship; it is not an object of worship. The statement of R. Eleazar is stronger than that of Rav. The Babli disagrees, 52a..
רִבִּי הִילָא בְשֵׁם רִבִּי לָעְזָר. וְהוּא שֶׁהֶעֱמִיד עָלֶיהָ עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה. מִחְלְפָה שִׁיטָּתֵיהּ דְּרַב. תַּמָּן הוּא אָמַר. מִזּוֹ הַמַּתִּיךְ כּוֹס לָעֲבוֹדָה זָרָה נֶאֱסָר מִיָּד. וְהָכָא הוּא אָמַר הָכֵין. פָּתַר לָהּ כְּהָדֵין תַּנָּיָיא. דְּתַנִּינָן תַּמָּן. עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה שֶׁלְּנָכְרִי אֲסוּרָה מִיָּד. וְשֶׁלְּיִשְׂרָאֵל מִשֶּׁתֵּעָבֵד. כְּלוּם פְּלִיגִין לָהּ בָּעֲבוֹדָה זָרָה. דִּילְמָא בִמְשַׁמְּשָׁיו. רִבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בְשֵׁם רִבִּי לָעְזָר. אַף בִּמְשַׁמְּשֵׁי עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה בְּמַחֲלוֹקֶת.
Rebbi Ila in the name of Rebbi Eleazar: Only if he put an idol on it234This refers to the second case in the Mishnah, where a stone quarried indifferently is adorned to become an altar.. The opinions of Rav235It seems that one has to read: R. Eleazar. seem inconsistent. There he says, if one casts a cup for idolatry it is immediately forbidden, and here he says so236Why for a cup it is immediately forbidden but for a decorated stone only by actually being used in idolatry?? Explain it following what has been stated237Mishnah 4:4. It is presumed that only a Gentile would make something from the start for idolatry; the most a Jew would do is to adorn an object.: “A Gentile’s idol is immediately forbidden, but a Jew’s when it was worshipped.” There is disagreement about an idol, maybe also for its appurtenances238In Halakhah 4:4 there is an opinion to the reverse: the idol of a Gentile becomes forbidden only by being worshipped, the Jew’s idol immediately upon acquisition or manufacture.? Rebbi Simeon in the name of Rebbi Eleazar: There is disagreement also about appurtenances239Even though Mishnah 4:4 and the corresponding baraita are formulated for idols, they are valid for all implements of idolatry. The Babli disagrees, 52a..
Rebbi Ila in the name of Rebbi Eleazar: Only if he put an idol on it234This refers to the second case in the Mishnah, where a stone quarried indifferently is adorned to become an altar.. The opinions of Rav235It seems that one has to read: R. Eleazar. seem inconsistent. There he says, if one casts a cup for idolatry it is immediately forbidden, and here he says so236Why for a cup it is immediately forbidden but for a decorated stone only by actually being used in idolatry?? Explain it following what has been stated237Mishnah 4:4. It is presumed that only a Gentile would make something from the start for idolatry; the most a Jew would do is to adorn an object.: “A Gentile’s idol is immediately forbidden, but a Jew’s when it was worshipped.” There is disagreement about an idol, maybe also for its appurtenances238In Halakhah 4:4 there is an opinion to the reverse: the idol of a Gentile becomes forbidden only by being worshipped, the Jew’s idol immediately upon acquisition or manufacture.? Rebbi Simeon in the name of Rebbi Eleazar: There is disagreement also about appurtenances239Even though Mishnah 4:4 and the corresponding baraita are formulated for idols, they are valid for all implements of idolatry. The Babli disagrees, 52a..
רִבִּי אִילָא בְשֵׁם רִבִּי לָעְזָר. וְהוּא שֶׁהֶעֱמִיד עָלֶיהָ עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה. עַל דַּעְתֵּיהּ דְּרִבִּי לָעְזָר שְׁתֵּי אֲבָנִים. וְהָא תַנִּינָן. שָׁלשׁ אֲבָנִים הֵן. כָּאן לְשָׁעָה כָאן לִשְׁהוֹת.
240This is completely parallel to the corresponding paragraph in Halakhah 9. Rebbi Ila in the name of Rebbi Eleazar: Only if he put an idol on it. In the opinion of Rebbi Eleazar there are two stones. But have we not stated “there are three stones”? Here temporarily, there permanently.
240This is completely parallel to the corresponding paragraph in Halakhah 9. Rebbi Ila in the name of Rebbi Eleazar: Only if he put an idol on it. In the opinion of Rebbi Eleazar there are two stones. But have we not stated “there are three stones”? Here temporarily, there permanently.