Talmud Yerushalmi
Yerushalmi Ketubot 10:3 ירושלמי כתובות י׳:ג׳
Part of: Chapter 10
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משנה: הָיוּ שָׁם נְכָסִים בָּרָאוּי אֵינָן כְּבַמּוּחְזַק. רִבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן אוֹמֵר אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁיֵּשׁ שָׁם נְכָסִים שֶׁאֵין לָהֶן אַחֵרָיוּת אֵינוֹ כְלוּם עַד שֶׁיִּהְיוּ שָׁם נְכָסִים שֶׁיֵּשׁ לָהֶן אַחֵרָיוּת יוֹתֵר עַל שְׁתֵּי כְתוּבּוֹת דֵּינָר.
MISHNAH: If the estate contained expected property, it does not have the status of property in actual possession50If the expected inheritance from a grandfather would bring the father’s estate over the limit for distribution of the “ketubah of male sons”, it cannot be counted until it becomes due. Similarly, the double portion of a male firstborn is restricted to “all that is present with him” at his father’s death (Deut. 21:17); the firstborn has no special rights to any inheritance from other members of their family coming to the sons after the father’s death.. Rebbi Simeon says, even if there was no mortgageable property51Movables., it does not count unless there is mortgageable property52Real estate. R. Simeon holds that a ketubah is a mortgage lien and, therefore, cannot be satisfied by movable property. in the value of at least a denar more than the two ketubot.
MISHNAH: If the estate contained expected property, it does not have the status of property in actual possession50If the expected inheritance from a grandfather would bring the father’s estate over the limit for distribution of the “ketubah of male sons”, it cannot be counted until it becomes due. Similarly, the double portion of a male firstborn is restricted to “all that is present with him” at his father’s death (Deut. 21:17); the firstborn has no special rights to any inheritance from other members of their family coming to the sons after the father’s death.. Rebbi Simeon says, even if there was no mortgageable property51Movables., it does not count unless there is mortgageable property52Real estate. R. Simeon holds that a ketubah is a mortgage lien and, therefore, cannot be satisfied by movable property. in the value of at least a denar more than the two ketubot.
הלכה: הָיוּ שָׁם נְכָסִים בָּרָאוּי כול׳. רִבִּי מָנָא אָמַר. בְּעִיקַּר שְׁתֵּי כְתוּבּוֹת פְּלִיגִין. רִבִּי שִמְעוֹן אוֹמֵר. קַרְקַע. וְרַבָּנִין אָמְרִין. מְטַלְטְלִין. בְּאוֹתָהּ הַדֵּינָר כָּל עַמָּא מוֹדֵיי שֶׁהוּא מְטַלְטֵל. רִבִּי יוֹסֵי בֵּירִבִּי בּוּן אָמַר. כָּל עַמָּא מוֹדֵיי בְּעִיקַּר שְׁתֵּי כְתוּבּוֹת שֶׁהֵן קַרְקַע. מַה פְלִיגִין. בְּאוֹתוֹ הַדֵּינָר. רִבִּי שִמְעוֹן אוֹמֵר. קַרְקַע. וְרַבָּנִין אָמְרִין. מְטַלְטְלִין. רִבִּי בָּא בַּר זַבְדָּא בְשֵׁם רַב. בְּרַם נָהֲגוּ בְסוּרְיָא לִהְיוֹת גּוֹבִין מִן הַנְּחוֹשֶׁת וּמִן הַצּוּעוֹת. רִבִּי אַבָּהוּ בְשֵׁם רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן. וּבִלְבַד מִן הַצּוּעוֹת שֶׁבְּאוֹתוֹ הַלַּיְלָה. רַב שְׁמוּאֵל בַּר נַחְמָן בְּשֵׁם רִבִּי יוֹנָתָן. נָהֲגוּ הָעָם בַּעֲרַבְיָיא לִהְיוֹת גּוֹבֶה מִן הַבּוֹשֶׂם וּמִן הַגְּמָלִים. וְדִכְוָותָהּ. בִּלְבַד מִן הַבּוֹשֶׂם שֶׁבְּאוֹתוֹ הַלַּיְלָה. אַרְמַלְתָּא דְּרִבִּי חוּנָה גָבִי לָהּ מִן הַמְטַלְטְלִין כְּמִנְהַג מְקוֹמָהּ.
HALAKHAH: “If the estate contained expected property,” etc. Rebbi Mana said, they disagree about the basic claim of the two ketubot53It is not totally clear what “the basic claim of the ketubah” means. Is it only the required 100/200 zuz or is it that amount plus any dowry which became the husband’s property, to exclude any sum the husband wrote into the ketubah in excess of minimum and dowry? The second version is preferred by the classical commentators.. Rebbi Simeon says, real estate, but the rabbis say, movables. But for the excess denar everybody agrees that it is movable. Rebbi Yose ben Rebbi Abun said, everybody agrees about the basic claim of the two ketubot that it must be real estate. Where do they disagree? About the excess denar, where Rebbi Simeon says, real estate, but the rabbis say, movables. Rebbi Abba bar Zavda in the name of Rav: But in Syria they routinely collect from bronze and bedspreads54Articles of trade, at places were Jews were not traditionally land owners.. Rebbi Abbahu in the name of Rebbi Joḥanan: Only from bedspreads of that night55He wants to restrict the recovery of the ketubah to the articles of the dowry brought by the bride.. Rav Samuel bar Naḥman in the name of Rebbi Joḥanan: The people in Arabia routinely collect from camels and spices56Since they are bedouin traders, they do not possess any real estate; their equivalent of real estate are camels (affirmed in the Babli, 67a, by the same authors); their object of trade is spices.. Similarly, only from spices of that night57Since it would be nonsensical to require the spices brought by the bride to be available to the widow; the condition about bedspreads is also nonsensical.? Rebbi Ḥuna’s widow collected from movables following her place’s custom58The famous Gaonic decree that ketubot be paid from movables is nothing but an application of the Yerushalmi rule that local conditions overrule general statements..
HALAKHAH: “If the estate contained expected property,” etc. Rebbi Mana said, they disagree about the basic claim of the two ketubot53It is not totally clear what “the basic claim of the ketubah” means. Is it only the required 100/200 zuz or is it that amount plus any dowry which became the husband’s property, to exclude any sum the husband wrote into the ketubah in excess of minimum and dowry? The second version is preferred by the classical commentators.. Rebbi Simeon says, real estate, but the rabbis say, movables. But for the excess denar everybody agrees that it is movable. Rebbi Yose ben Rebbi Abun said, everybody agrees about the basic claim of the two ketubot that it must be real estate. Where do they disagree? About the excess denar, where Rebbi Simeon says, real estate, but the rabbis say, movables. Rebbi Abba bar Zavda in the name of Rav: But in Syria they routinely collect from bronze and bedspreads54Articles of trade, at places were Jews were not traditionally land owners.. Rebbi Abbahu in the name of Rebbi Joḥanan: Only from bedspreads of that night55He wants to restrict the recovery of the ketubah to the articles of the dowry brought by the bride.. Rav Samuel bar Naḥman in the name of Rebbi Joḥanan: The people in Arabia routinely collect from camels and spices56Since they are bedouin traders, they do not possess any real estate; their equivalent of real estate are camels (affirmed in the Babli, 67a, by the same authors); their object of trade is spices.. Similarly, only from spices of that night57Since it would be nonsensical to require the spices brought by the bride to be available to the widow; the condition about bedspreads is also nonsensical.? Rebbi Ḥuna’s widow collected from movables following her place’s custom58The famous Gaonic decree that ketubot be paid from movables is nothing but an application of the Yerushalmi rule that local conditions overrule general statements..