Talmud Yerushalmi
Yerushalmi Avodah Zarah 2:4 ירושלמי עבודה זרה ב׳:ד׳
Part of: Chapter 2
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משנה: נוֹדוֹת הַגּוֹיִם וְקַנְקַנֵּיהֶם וְיֵין יִשְׂרָאֵל כָּנוּס בָּהֶן אֲסוּרִין וְאִיסּוּרָן אִיסּוּר הֲנָאָה דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר. וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים אֵין אִיסּוּרָן אִיסּוּר הֲנָאָה.
MISHNAH: Gentiles’ wine skins and jugs226Which were not thoroughly cleansed to remove all traces of use for Gentile wine. containing an Israel’s wine are forbidden and their prohibition is one of usufruct, the words of Rebbi Meïr; but the Sages say that their prohibition is not one of usufruct227The wine may be used for trade; it is forbidden for Jews to drink..
MISHNAH: Gentiles’ wine skins and jugs226Which were not thoroughly cleansed to remove all traces of use for Gentile wine. containing an Israel’s wine are forbidden and their prohibition is one of usufruct, the words of Rebbi Meïr; but the Sages say that their prohibition is not one of usufruct227The wine may be used for trade; it is forbidden for Jews to drink..
הלכה: נוֹדוֹת הַגּוֹיִם וְקַנְקַנֵּיהֶם כול׳. נוֹדוֹת הַגּוֹיִם גְּרוּדוֹת הֲרֵי אֵילּוּ מוּתָּרוֹת. זְפוּתוֹת הֲרֵי אֵילּוּ אֲסוּרוֹת. גּוֹי עוֹבְדָן וְדוֹבְבָן וְיִשְׂרָאֵל עוֹמֵד עַל גַּבָּיו כּוֹנֵס לְתוֹכָן יַיִן וְאֵינוֹ חוֹשֵׁשׁ. וְחָשׁ לוֹמַר. שֶׁמָּא נִיסֵּךְ הוּא. אָמַר רִבִּי בָּא. אֵינוֹ מָצוּי לְנַסֵּךְ עַל גַּבֵּי דָּבַר מָאוּס. מֵעַתָּה אֲפִילוּ אֵין יִשְׂרָאֵל עוֹמֵד עַל גַּבָּיו. אֲנִי אוֹמֵר. שֶׁמָּא הֶחֱלִיף.
HALAKHAH: “Gentiles’ wine skins and jugs,” etc. 228Tosephta 4:10; Babli 33a.“Rough Gentile wine skins229The interior surface is leather only; it was not smoothened by tar. are permitted; tarred ones are forbidden. If a Gentile made it and insulated230It is difficult to see how the scribe could have written דובבן for זופתן “tarred them” in the other sources; it may be better to accept the word as it stands and read it as ذبّب “to protect, defend something”, to protect the skin against being penetrated by the wine. it while a Jew was watching, one may fill it with wine without worry.” Should one not be afraid that possibly he made a libation? He will not usually make a libation in repugnant circumstances231Even if the pitch is diluted with vinegar when applied to the skin, the bad smell does not invite making a libation. One assumes that the Jew has provided the vinegar which was made from kosher wine.. Then even if no Jew was watching? I say, maybe he switched232Then one has no control over the vinegar which was used..
HALAKHAH: “Gentiles’ wine skins and jugs,” etc. 228Tosephta 4:10; Babli 33a.“Rough Gentile wine skins229The interior surface is leather only; it was not smoothened by tar. are permitted; tarred ones are forbidden. If a Gentile made it and insulated230It is difficult to see how the scribe could have written דובבן for זופתן “tarred them” in the other sources; it may be better to accept the word as it stands and read it as ذبّب “to protect, defend something”, to protect the skin against being penetrated by the wine. it while a Jew was watching, one may fill it with wine without worry.” Should one not be afraid that possibly he made a libation? He will not usually make a libation in repugnant circumstances231Even if the pitch is diluted with vinegar when applied to the skin, the bad smell does not invite making a libation. One assumes that the Jew has provided the vinegar which was made from kosher wine.. Then even if no Jew was watching? I say, maybe he switched232Then one has no control over the vinegar which was used..
קַנְקַנֵּי גוֹיִם חֲדָשׁוֹת מוֹתָּרוֹת אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁהֵן זְפוֹתוֹת. יְשָׁנוֹת אֲסוּרוֹת אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאֵינָן זְפוֹתוֹת. הָכָא אַתְּ אָמַר זְפוּתוֹת מוּתָּרוֹת. וְהָכָא אַתְּ אָמַר זְפוּתוֹת אֲסוּרוֹת. אָמַר רִבִּי אַבָּהוּ. אֲנִי עָמַדְתִּי עַל זִפְתָּן שֶׁל קַנְקַנִּים וְאֵין נוֹתְנִין לְתוֹכָן חוֹמֶץ בְּשָׁעָה שֶׁזּוֹפְתִין אוֹתָן.
228Tosephta 4:10; Babli 33a.“Gentile jugs, new ones are permitted even tarred; old are forbidden even if not tarred.” Here you say tarred are permitted and there you say tarred are prohibited. Rebbi Abbahu said, I investigated tarring of jugs; they do not use vinegar while tarring233There is no reason to forbid new jugs..
228Tosephta 4:10; Babli 33a.“Gentile jugs, new ones are permitted even tarred; old are forbidden even if not tarred.” Here you say tarred are permitted and there you say tarred are prohibited. Rebbi Abbahu said, I investigated tarring of jugs; they do not use vinegar while tarring233There is no reason to forbid new jugs..
רִבִּי יַעֲקֹב בַּר אָחָא בְּשֵׁם רַבָּנִן. יַיִן שֶׁאָסוּר בִּשְׁתִיָיה וּמוּתָּר בַּהֲנָאָה וּכְנָסוֹ לְתוֹךְ קַנְקַנִּים נַעֲשׂוּ הַקַּנְקַנִּים כְּיַיִן. פִּינָּהוּ וְכָנַס לְתוֹכוֹ יַיִן אַחֵר נַעֲשֶׂה יַיִן כְּקַנְקַנִּים. פִּינָּהוּ וְכָנַס לְתוֹכוֹ יַיִן אַחֵר הַיַּיִן אָסוּר וְהַקַּנְקַנִּין מוּתָּרִין. וְלָמָּה אָסוּר בִּשְׁתִיָיה וּמוּתָּר בַהֲנָאָה. בְּגִין דְּרִבִּי מֵאִיר אָמַר. אָסוּר בִּשְׁתִיָיה וּבַהֲנָיָיה.
Rebbi Jacob bar Aḥa in the name of the rabbis: If somebody puts wine which was forbidden to drink but permitted to use into jugs, the jugs become like the wine234It cannot be exactly like the wine since one cannot drink the solid jug. But it means that the jug is permitted for usufruct but will make any wine which touches its inside forbidden to drink.. If he removed it and put new wine235Kosher wine. into them, the wine becomes like the jugs236Forbidden to drink but permitted for usufruct.. If he removed it and put new wine235Kosher wine. into them, the wine is forbidden but the jugs permitted237The first wine was forbidden. If the jug was filled twice with kosher wine, it has been cleansed from the first contamination; the third time the kosher wine remains kosher.. Why “forbidden to drink but permitted to use”? Because of Rebbi Meïr who said, forbidden to drink and for use238He will reject this way of cleansing the jug..
Rebbi Jacob bar Aḥa in the name of the rabbis: If somebody puts wine which was forbidden to drink but permitted to use into jugs, the jugs become like the wine234It cannot be exactly like the wine since one cannot drink the solid jug. But it means that the jug is permitted for usufruct but will make any wine which touches its inside forbidden to drink.. If he removed it and put new wine235Kosher wine. into them, the wine becomes like the jugs236Forbidden to drink but permitted for usufruct.. If he removed it and put new wine235Kosher wine. into them, the wine is forbidden but the jugs permitted237The first wine was forbidden. If the jug was filled twice with kosher wine, it has been cleansed from the first contamination; the third time the kosher wine remains kosher.. Why “forbidden to drink but permitted to use”? Because of Rebbi Meïr who said, forbidden to drink and for use238He will reject this way of cleansing the jug..
אָמַר רִבִּי בָּא. כְּשֶׁהָלַךְ רִבִּי עֲקִיבָה לְזִיפּוֹרִין אֲתוֹן שְׁאָלוּן לֵיהּ. קַנְקַנִּים שֶׁלְּגוֹיִם בַּמֶּה הִיא טַהֲרָתָן. אָמַר. מִזּוֹ לִימַּדְתִּי עֲלֵיהֶם. מָה אִם בְּשָׁעָה שֶׁאֵינָן זְפוּתוֹת אַתָּ מַר מוּתָּרִין. בְּשָׁעָה שֶׁהֵן זְפוּתוֹת אֶלָּא שֶׁנִּתְקַלְּפָה זִיפָתָן לֹא כָּל שֶׁכֶּן. וּכְשֶׁבָּאתִי אֶצֶל חֲבֵירַיי אָמְרוּ לִי. עַל יְדֵי זֶפֶת הֵן בּוֹלְעוֹת.
Rebbi Abba said, when Rebbi Aqiba went to the tar workers, they came and asked him, how does one purify Gentiles’ jugs? From the following I taught them, since they are permitted if not tarred, if they were tarred but the pitch was shaved off not so much more? But when I came to my colleagues they told me that they are absorbing because of the pitch239They hold that wine absorbed in earthenware which had been tarred will not be removed even if the tar was removed and the vessel cleansed with water for three days as explained at the end of the Halakhah..
Rebbi Abba said, when Rebbi Aqiba went to the tar workers, they came and asked him, how does one purify Gentiles’ jugs? From the following I taught them, since they are permitted if not tarred, if they were tarred but the pitch was shaved off not so much more? But when I came to my colleagues they told me that they are absorbing because of the pitch239They hold that wine absorbed in earthenware which had been tarred will not be removed even if the tar was removed and the vessel cleansed with water for three days as explained at the end of the Halakhah..
כָּנַס הַגּוֹי לְתוֹכָן מַיִם יִשְׂרָאֵל כּוֹנֵס לְתוֹכָן מַיִם וְחוֹזֵר וְכוֹנֵס לְתוֹכוֹ יַיִן וְאֵינוֹ חוּשֵׁשׁ. כָּנַס הַגּוֹי לְתוֹכוֹ צִיר אוֹ מוּרִיֵיס יִשְׂרָאֵל כּוֹנֵס לְתוֹכָן יַיִן. כָּנַס הַגּוֹי לְתוֹכָן יַיִן יִשְׂרָאֵל כּוֹנֵס לְתוֹכָן צִיר אוֹ מוּרִיֵיס וְחוֹזֵר וְכוֹנֵס לְתוֹכָן יַיִן וְאֵינוֹ חוּשֵׁשׁ.
228,Tosephta 4:10; Babli 33a.240A very different version in the Babli, 33a, bottom.“If the Gentile filled it with water, the Jew fills it with water; then he fills it with wine without worry. It the Gentile filled it with fish fluid241צִיר is any fluid obtained by squeezing something, whether fruit, meat, or in this case fish. Muries is a sauce in which pieces of fish are preserved. or fish sauce206Latin muries; this also might have been made with wine, even though using only salt and water is cheaper. the Jew may fill it with wine242The smell of the fish will obliterate any taste that might have remained of the Gentile’s wine.. If the Gentile filled it with wine, the Jew fills it with fish fluid or fish sauce, then he fills it with wine without worry.”
228,Tosephta 4:10; Babli 33a.240A very different version in the Babli, 33a, bottom.“If the Gentile filled it with water, the Jew fills it with water; then he fills it with wine without worry. It the Gentile filled it with fish fluid241צִיר is any fluid obtained by squeezing something, whether fruit, meat, or in this case fish. Muries is a sauce in which pieces of fish are preserved. or fish sauce206Latin muries; this also might have been made with wine, even though using only salt and water is cheaper. the Jew may fill it with wine242The smell of the fish will obliterate any taste that might have remained of the Gentile’s wine.. If the Gentile filled it with wine, the Jew fills it with fish fluid or fish sauce, then he fills it with wine without worry.”
רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן נְפַק לַפַּנְטִי דִּרִבִּי יוּדָן נְשִׂיָיא לְעַכּוֹ. אֲתוֹן שְׁאָלוּן לֵיהּ. קַנְקַנִּים בַּמֶּה הִיא טַהֲרָתָן. אָמַר. מִזּוֹ לִימַּדְתִּי עֲלֵיהֶם. מָה אִם בְּשָׁעָה שֶׁכָּנַס גוֹי לְתוֹכוֹ צִיר אוֹ מוּרִיֵיס יִשְׂרָאֵל כּוֹנְס לְתוֹכָן יַיִן. רִבִּי יָסָא בְשֵׁם רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן. בְּשָׁעָה שֶׁמַּכְנִיסָן לָאוֹר לֹא כָּל שֶׁכֵּן. רִבִּי חִיָיה בְשֵׁם רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן. בָּשָׁעָה שֶׁמַּשְׁחִיל אֶת זִיפְתָּן לֹא כָּל שֶׁכֵּן. קַיָימִין אִינּוּן. אִין קָמִין קָמִין.
Rebbi Joḥanan went to meet243Greek ἀπαντάω “to meet” with Atamaic prefix ל. Rebbi Yudan the Prince at Acco. They came and asked him, how does one purify jugs? He said, from the following I taught them, since after the Gentile filled it with fish fluid or fish sauce the Jew fills it with wine244This is the quote from the previous Tosephta. Of R. Joḥanan’s argument there exist two versions, one by R. Yasa (reported in the Babli 33b), the other by R. Ḥiyya bar Abba.. Rebbi Yasa in the name of Rebbi Joḥanan, if he puts them into the fire not so much more? Rebbi Ḥiyya in the name of Rebbi Joḥanan, if he strips off the tarring245By burning of the tar. not so much more? Do they stand this? If they stand it, they stand246Both R. Yasa and R. Ḥiyya require that the earthenware jug be treated with fire; either fired in its entirety or fire applied to the tar lining. It is agreed that there is a risk that the vessel will burst in the fire, but if it withstands the process it may be used to store Jewish wine..
Rebbi Joḥanan went to meet243Greek ἀπαντάω “to meet” with Atamaic prefix ל. Rebbi Yudan the Prince at Acco. They came and asked him, how does one purify jugs? He said, from the following I taught them, since after the Gentile filled it with fish fluid or fish sauce the Jew fills it with wine244This is the quote from the previous Tosephta. Of R. Joḥanan’s argument there exist two versions, one by R. Yasa (reported in the Babli 33b), the other by R. Ḥiyya bar Abba.. Rebbi Yasa in the name of Rebbi Joḥanan, if he puts them into the fire not so much more? Rebbi Ḥiyya in the name of Rebbi Joḥanan, if he strips off the tarring245By burning of the tar. not so much more? Do they stand this? If they stand it, they stand246Both R. Yasa and R. Ḥiyya require that the earthenware jug be treated with fire; either fired in its entirety or fire applied to the tar lining. It is agreed that there is a risk that the vessel will burst in the fire, but if it withstands the process it may be used to store Jewish wine..
קַנְקַנִּין שֶׁאֵינָן זְפוּתוֹת. רִבִּי אַסִּי אָמַר. אֲסוּרוֹת. רִבִּי אִמִּי אָמַר מוּתָּרוֹת. רִבִּי יַעֲקֹב בַּר אָחָא אָמַר. רִבִּי אַסִּי מַקְשֵׁי. כִּי נָן אָמְרִין אָהֵן כּוּזָה לֹא בָלַע. רִבִּי בָּא אָמַר. רַב שֵׁשֶׁת שְׁאִיל. מָאן אֲנָן אָמְרִין הָאֵין דָהוֹן שֶׁלְּמֵימֵי רַגְלַיִם לֹא בָלַע.
Untarred jugs247Which had been used by Gentiles., Rebbi Assi190This is the Babli’s name of R. Yasa who later is quoted with his Galilean name. Note also in the first part Babylonian הנאה for Galilean הנייה. said, they are forbidden248They cannot be cleansed to become usable., Rebbi Immi said, they are permitted. Rebbi Jacob bar Aḥa said, Rebbi Assi questioned: do we say that a tankard does not absorb249Both R. Assi and Rav Sheshet question the position of R. Immi.? Rebbi Abba said, Rav Sheshet asked, could we say that a vessel for urine does not absorb?
Untarred jugs247Which had been used by Gentiles., Rebbi Assi190This is the Babli’s name of R. Yasa who later is quoted with his Galilean name. Note also in the first part Babylonian הנאה for Galilean הנייה. said, they are forbidden248They cannot be cleansed to become usable., Rebbi Immi said, they are permitted. Rebbi Jacob bar Aḥa said, Rebbi Assi questioned: do we say that a tankard does not absorb249Both R. Assi and Rav Sheshet question the position of R. Immi.? Rebbi Abba said, Rav Sheshet asked, could we say that a vessel for urine does not absorb?
רִבִּי יַעֲקֹב בַּר אָחָא רִבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בַּר אַבָּא בְשֵׁם רִבִּי חֲנִינָה. קַנְקַנֵּי גוֹיִם מְמַלְּאָן מַיִם ג׳ יָמִים מֵעֵת לָעֵת. רִבִּי יַעֲקֹב בַּר אָחָא אָמַר. רִבִּי אַסִּי מַקְשֵׁי וְעָבְדִין כֵּן. רִבִּי יוֹסֵי מִמַּלְחַיָיא אֲעֵיל עוֹבְדָא קוֹמֵי רִבִּי מָנָא. אָמַר לֵיהּ. הָא לְשֶׁעָבַר. אָמַר לֵיהּ. שָׁרֵי. הָא לְכַתְּחִילָּה. אָמַר לֵיהּ. אָסִיר. רִבִּי יִרְמְיָה אֲזַל לְגוֹבְלָנָה. הוֹרֵי בְאִילֵּין פִּיתְרַיָיא רַבְרְבַיָיא. מְמַלֵּא אוֹתָן מַיִם ג׳ יָמִים מֵעֵת לָעֵת.
Rebbi Jacob bar Aḥa, Rebbi Simeon bar Abba in the name of Rebbi Ḥanina: One fills Gentiles’ jugs with water three days from time to time250One fills the vessel with water, lets it stand for 24 hours, pours the old water out and refills with new, and repeats twice.. Rebbi Jacob bar Aḥa said, Rebbi Assi190This is the Babli’s name of R. Yasa who later is quoted with his Galilean name. Note also in the first part Babylonian הנאה for Galilean הנייה. asked, does one do this? Rebbi Yose from Malḥa brought a case before Rebbi Mana. He told him, that is what happened; he answered that it is permitted. Is that to start? He told him, it is forbidden251The method is a short-cut which cannot be used generally; if people used it without asking one cannot prohibit the vessels cleansed in this way.. Rebbi Jeremiah went to Goblana; he instructed about large cups252Latin patera“flat dish or saucer; libation bowl” or Greek ποτήριον (cup, receptacle for offerings in temples; cup in the Eucharist) (Kohut). that one fills them with water three days from time to time253He sees nothing wrong with the method and recommends it publicly. He is quoted in the Babli, 33a, in the same sense and ascribes the ruling to R. Immi..
Rebbi Jacob bar Aḥa, Rebbi Simeon bar Abba in the name of Rebbi Ḥanina: One fills Gentiles’ jugs with water three days from time to time250One fills the vessel with water, lets it stand for 24 hours, pours the old water out and refills with new, and repeats twice.. Rebbi Jacob bar Aḥa said, Rebbi Assi190This is the Babli’s name of R. Yasa who later is quoted with his Galilean name. Note also in the first part Babylonian הנאה for Galilean הנייה. asked, does one do this? Rebbi Yose from Malḥa brought a case before Rebbi Mana. He told him, that is what happened; he answered that it is permitted. Is that to start? He told him, it is forbidden251The method is a short-cut which cannot be used generally; if people used it without asking one cannot prohibit the vessels cleansed in this way.. Rebbi Jeremiah went to Goblana; he instructed about large cups252Latin patera“flat dish or saucer; libation bowl” or Greek ποτήριον (cup, receptacle for offerings in temples; cup in the Eucharist) (Kohut). that one fills them with water three days from time to time253He sees nothing wrong with the method and recommends it publicly. He is quoted in the Babli, 33a, in the same sense and ascribes the ruling to R. Immi..
אֲרָמַיָיא אִיתְבְּזָעַת זִיקֵיהּ וְקִיבְּלָהּ יִשְׂרָאֵל גַּו דִידֵיהּ. אֲתַא עוֹבְדָא קוֹמֵי רַבָּנִן. אָמְרֵי. מְמַלֵּא אוֹתָן מַיִם ג׳ יָמִים מֵעֵת לָעֵת.
An Aramean’s254A Non-Jew, not necessarily a pagan; cf. Chapter 1, Note 177. leather bag split; the Jew received it into his255The Aramean’s wine-skin started leaking; a Jew saved his wine by receiving it into his own wine-skin. The Gentile’s wine certainly is forbidden to the Jew; the question is how the Jew can regain the use of his skin after the wine was transferred to the Gentile’s vessel, without ruining the vessel by using it for fish sauce.. The case came before the rabbis who said, one fills them with water three days from time to time256Following R. Jeremiah, against R. Yasa (Assi)..
An Aramean’s254A Non-Jew, not necessarily a pagan; cf. Chapter 1, Note 177. leather bag split; the Jew received it into his255The Aramean’s wine-skin started leaking; a Jew saved his wine by receiving it into his own wine-skin. The Gentile’s wine certainly is forbidden to the Jew; the question is how the Jew can regain the use of his skin after the wine was transferred to the Gentile’s vessel, without ruining the vessel by using it for fish sauce.. The case came before the rabbis who said, one fills them with water three days from time to time256Following R. Jeremiah, against R. Yasa (Assi)..
רִבִּי יָסָא אֲזַל לְצוֹר. חֲמָא יַתְהוֹן זָפְתִין זִיקוּקִין זְעִירִין וְיִשְׂרָאֵל זְבַנִּין. אֲמַר. מָאן שָׁרָא לְכוֹן. שְׁאָלוּן לְרִבִּי יִצְחָק וּלְרִבִּי מָנִי וְאָסְרוּן.
Rebbi Yasa257In the entire Halakhah he opposes cleansing Gentile wine vessels for use by Jews. went to Tyre. He saw them258Gentile workers. tarring small leather bags and Jews bought them. He asked, who permitted you? They asked Rebbi Isaac and Rebbi Mani259The earlier authorities all forbid refurbishing wine skins and jugs; the later generations do permit it., who prohibited it.
Rebbi Yasa257In the entire Halakhah he opposes cleansing Gentile wine vessels for use by Jews. went to Tyre. He saw them258Gentile workers. tarring small leather bags and Jews bought them. He asked, who permitted you? They asked Rebbi Isaac and Rebbi Mani259The earlier authorities all forbid refurbishing wine skins and jugs; the later generations do permit it., who prohibited it.